by Maya Pope-Chappell


Referring to African American sports columnist Bill Rhoden as a "New York Times quota hire" and PBS anchor Gwen Ifill as "a cleaning lady," racially charged and sexist comments are not a first for Don Imus and his radio show, Imus in the Morning. In his most recent remark which led to his firing by MSNBC and CBS, referring to the Rutgers Womens Basketball team as "nappy-headed hos," Imus has caused outrage, disgust, and a media firestorm throughout the country. But why such outrage? Why wasnt Nelly dropped from his label when he slid a credit card down a woman's ass and referred to her as a "tip-drill." Or even better, why are artists given multi-million dollar contracts and endorsements to spit lyrics that are not just racially charged and misogynistic, but also homophobic and violent.

"The reality is everything that is in hip hop culture that is negative is also in mainstream society," said Lois Vossen, series producer for Independent Lens. "If hip hop music went away today, we would still have racism, we would still have sexism, homophobia, violence against women, [and] misogyny. All those issues exist in hip hop culture and music because they exist in the larger society."

Filmmaker Byron Hurt examines the meaning of manhood, the normalization of violence, sexism, and homophobia in his new and refreshing documentary film, "Hip Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes." Challenging mainstream consumers, the film challenges everyone, from the industry, to the artists, to the fans to answer to the representations expressed in hip hop.

Premiering at the Sundance Film Festival in 2006 and on Independent Lens on PBS to over 1.2 million viewers, Hurts film has been universally embraced. In community screenings throughout the country, feedback about the film has been overwhelmingly positive.

"It is a good film that portrays everyone's point of view, including those within hip hop," said Lydia Smith, a hip hop fan and college student. The message is clear and it makes you think about what you [as a fan] are consuming."

In a recent telephone interview with Hurt, I spoke with him about his documentary, including the controversial themes expressed in the film.

Maya: Where did the idea for your documentary, "Hip Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes" come from?

Byron: I conceptualized the project in 1997 after I made my 2nd film, I am a Man: Black Masculinity in America. In I am a Man, I really didn't discuss or incorporate anything related to hip hop. After I finished that film, I said to myself, maybe it would be a good idea to do a film about hip hop. What triggered me to make Beyond Beats and Rhymes, was just sitting at home watching [Rap City on] BET on a Saturday afternoon and just thinking to myself, all of this visual imagery and the lyrics would make a good film about masculinity in hip hop. As a hip hop fan, I felt like it was a film that needed to be made.

MPC: How long did it take you to produce this film?

BH: It took me almost 6 years from the time that I sat down and started writing the proposal until the film was [premiered] at Sundance [Film Festival.]

MPC: What do you like most about the film?

BH: It is a very smart film and it is also entertaining. Its also very engaging and people seem to be pulled into the film and they stay into the film for the whole entire documentary. And the fact that it's really thoughtful. It just doesn't take a look at hip hop, it goes a little beyond hip hop and addresses masculinity in the larger culture too. It's just very well made and edited. That's what I like most about it.

MPC: You are described as being an anti-sexist activist. What does that label mean?

BH: It means that I speak out against sexism and all forms of gender violence and I educate boys and men about sexism, violence against women, masculinity, and homophobia. I'm a man who is supportive of women's issues.

MPC: Being both a fan and critic of hip hop music is a challenging position that I find myself to be in many times. Why do you feel the need to question or criticize the lyrics and ideas expressed in hip hop?

BH: I think the hyper-aggression, sexism and objectification of women in music videos as well as homophobia, [are] just way to normal and accepted in the culture. I just think hip hop can be so much more than that. I mean there's a song right now that Im loving called "Classic" by Kanye [West], Nas, KRS One and Rakim and that song to me is artistry. It is not hyper-aggressive. There is no sexism or any talk about disrespecting women, there are no homophobic references. Its just lyrical skills coming together. I really wish we could spend more time talking about that aspect of hip hop than talking about the criminality that exists in hip hop or the way that guys talk about women not only in songs but in music videos."

MPC: Would you say that there is a lack of artistry in hip hop today?

BH: I think its really subjective. In mainstream hip hop? Yes.

MPC: What event or occurrence in making the film did you find most shocking?

BH: Daytona Spring Bling is what caught me off guard the most. Even though it wasn't something I had never seen before [and] I knew things like that happened, just the intensity of it was just really bad. Because I had been educated about sexual assault and how prevalent and bad it is, and then to actually be down there in that environment where there were so many guys who just blatantly disrespected and sexually assaulted women the way that they were, and even for the women being sort of complacent in it, that was the most shocking of all I think.

MPC: Who in your film did you enjoy talking to the most and why?

BH: I think I probably enjoyed talking to Michael Eric Dyson because he taught me the most. I think Jadakiss is close second just because it was a cool interview, it was a fun interview and he kinda caught me by surprise. I didn't think he was gonna be as open as he was during the conversation.

MPC: One thing I like about your film is the way in which you link the misogyny and violence expressed in hip hop to American culture. What has been mainstream media's role in pushing violent, misogynist ideas portrayed in hip hop to the masses?

BH: Just off the top of my head, I think [the media] is probably just as guilty. The movies that we see being produced out of Hollywood, images of women in television commercials and magazines, just the homophobia that we see. All of these issues exist outside of hip hop, its just that hip hop receives so much more attention and focus because of the fact that, I think, it comes from poor brown and black people. These things are exaggerated in hip hop because its an easy target [and its] seen as a scapegoat.

MPC: When you say that violence has been normalized in hip hop, what does that mean?

BH: You hear it, you see it, and [in some cases] you experience it. Its almost as if its human nature, like its suppose to happen. We don't question it, we don't challenge it, we're desensitized to it. Its not shocking.

MPC: Why are only certain images of masculinity portrayed and valued in hip hop?

BH: Because it taps into something that is very American and this whole idea of glorifying violence. Because its Black men and Black men are seen as dangerous and criminal and violent and all of these things fit into the stereotype of who Black men are. And this anger and aggression is directed at other Black men. This anger and aggression is not directed at the white power structure because it's too much of a threat or challenge to white people. I think even for a lot of Black people its scary and challenging because I think it forces Black people to think critically about what the source of our energy is going toward.

MPC: What is your take on the way in which women are represented not only in rap lyrics but also in videos?

BH: I dont want to make it seem like every single hip hop song or every single hip hop video devalues women because that's not true either. But by and large, I think the representation and role of Black and Latino women and in some cases White women or Asian women [in music videos] is to service men. Their role is to serve as eye-candy, to be boy-toys, to be objects, not like real or human people with emotions and feelings and thoughts and all of those different things. So I think that's what the representation is.

MPC: What do you think about the absence of female MCs in commercial hip hop?

BH: I dont know why that is at this point. I dont think there's no real female MCs out there right now that are real hot. I mean [are there female MCs] that are out there and are marketable artists? I know Remy Ma is one. Lil Kim hasn't really done well commercially over the last couple of years. I can't think of any other real, legitimate, bonifide, real hot female MCs right now in the mainstream. I mean can you? I know a lot of people talk about Jean Grae, but she still, in my opinion, is still like an underground artist. A lot of people don't know about Jean Grae. I really don't know. That's a good question.

MPC: In what ways, if any, has commercial forms of hip hop and rap music contributed to a sense of nihilism (loss of hope and absence of meaning) in the Black community?

BH: I think if it does lead to nihilism, I think its because there is a sense that anything goes. That its ok to be immoral. Its ok to just be wild and ignorant and to not care about the social impact of anything that you say or do. Everything is about how many cars you got. How much money you got, all this kind of stuff, I mean, that is what everybody is rhyming about. How many guns you got. Its just so crazy to me now. Its just really sad. Its tragic that this is where hip hop has come to. Of course you have some rappers who are making comments about that [or] critiques on it, but still, rappers are still rhyming about that by and large. These are constant and recurring themes and to me its just real tragic that this is where hip hop has come to. This is why a song like "Classic" is so refreshing to me because its just something that jumps out so much. I think hip hop, hopefully will move away from that. The audience I think is going to get sick of it, tired of it, bored with it.

MPC: Lets talk about the corporate side of hip hop where this art form is being exploited and people not invested in the art form and positive images of Black people are profiting. I loved the part in the film where you were attempting to challenge BET executive Steven Hill and he just walked away, totally ignoring your question. Why did he and others avoid your challenge of their part in the promotion of certain representations of Black manhood in rap music on programs broadcast worldwide?

BH: Im not sure. You would have to ask them. I think that they don't want to take ownership. They dont want to be accountable for what their doing. I think they would have to enter into a real serious critique. They would have to re-examine what their doing and I don't think they want to do that. But to get the true answer you would have to ask them and you'd have to get them to enter in a way where their being completely honest.

MPC: What do you think can or should be done to curb these negative representations of masculinity, sexism, violence, and homophobia in rap music?

BH: I think that we have to stop buying it, stop supporting it. I think that we have to educate people about these representations so that we know and understand what we are consuming. I think we do have to hold the corporations responsible and let them know that we're not happy as consumers. But I think the biggest thing that we as buyers of it, the consumers, the real fans, have to continue to raise our voices.

MPC: What was something you wanted to express in the film that you were not able to due to film constraints or content limitations?

BH: There is this whole scene where we talk to Tony Blackman and we had her performing and [speaking about] her struggle to be a female artist in this male dominated art form and not be a Lil Kim that we could not include. We had a thing on Eminem masculinity in hip hop which we could not include. And then we had this whole scene with this pimp and we went into this whole thing about pimp culture in hip hop which we had to delete. So there were a lot of different things that we couldn't include. I had like 250 hours worth of footage. The film could only be 1 hour long.

MPC: What has the reception from the people been like as you tour the country promoting and screening the film?

BH: Its been phenomenal. Most people are very supportive of the film. They thank me for making the film. Im getting a lot of e-mail and just all kinds of responses from people who have watched the film. People are very passionate about the ideas in the film so its just been an incredible experience so far.

MPC: Has there been a reaction or response about your film from corporate execs or programs that promote these representations of Black manhood and violence?

BH: Nope. BET said they loved it. Surprisingly. MTV loved it [and] wanted to air it after it was made, but I had the deal with PBS so I couldn't do anything with them.

MPC: One part of the film that really stands out to me is when you stopped the white guy in his truck bumping rap music who talked about his love for rap then referred to Blacks as ‘colored people.' Can you explain the appeal and fascination that white's have with Black culture, particularly their fascination with hip hop and other forms of Black music?

BH: Well its historical. White people have always been attracted to Black music, Black art, Black culture. I think one of the reasons why is because Black art represents something to them that is cool, that has soul, that is soulful, and has this very potent and vibrant sexuality that white people are drawn to. I think that's what's so compelling about hip hop is that this is something that gives them a window into a culture that they know little or nothing about and its so different from their own culture.

MPC: Do you think that hip hop, with its popularity growing, has produced ideas about Blackness or what is means to be Black?

BH: Yes I do. Because that is all that people see so they buy into it and they think that that's how they have to be in order to be authentically Black. And that's not true. We're much more than that and that's just a very limited aspect of our humanity. There is so much more to us that they don't get the opportunity to see so they think that they're learning something that is very true about us. We are many things. We're not just thugs, gangsters, criminals and women who gyrate to music as soon as we hear a beat. We're much more than that.

MPC: Any closing remarks?

BH: I had a lot of really great help and support from people in making this film. I didn't make it all by myself. Executive Producer Stanly Nelson [and] my editor Sabrina Gordon [were] great. She did an excellent job editing the film. I [also] got a lot of support from the Independent Television Service [and] the National Black Programming Consortium.