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Sonia Sanchez, one of our nation's most under-appreciated poets decodes race and presidential politics, uncovers pieces of socialism in our capitalism, and champions change for self and country.

From the metaphor makers of the Black Arts Movement to the lyricists of today's Slam Nation, generations of poets have been influenced by the deeply passionate and political word iconography of Sonia Sanchez. She has been awarded numerous prizes for her work, such as the 1985 American Book Award for Poetry for her book, Homegirls and Handgrenades. She is currently a tenured professor of English and Women's Studies at Temple University and her work is currently being cataloged by the Shomberg Center for Research of Black Culture in New York. At 65, she is busier than ever, teaching, lecturing and completing various manuscripts.

Q. Do you remember the very first poem you wrote?
A. I was a little girl. I wrote a poem to a terrible little boy named Walter who cut off one of my braids. I really began writing a lot of poetry after my grandmother died, when I was about six. I loved "Mama" and so therefore this death completely threw me a great deal and so I started writing. One of my first poems that was published was to her. To this grandmother who loved me very much and protected me and in a very real sense. She raised me until I was six.

Q. What party are you registered with?
A. I used to be independent but I registered democrat here in Philadelphia because of the politics of the city and being able to vote in the primaries.

Q. When was the first time you knew your poetry had the power to change lives, that it was political?
A. There are a couple periods. When I was in New York working with C.O.R.E.. When the four little girls were murdered in that Birmingham church, I went to the church with a poem. I don't have that poem to this day because I just put it up on the bulletin board for people to read and somebody picked it up and left with it. But I realized then how communal our poetry is. The other thing is the poetry that I began to write after the killing of Malcolm X. We took up his mantle because [Amiri] Baraka sent letters to all the writers, artists and musicians in the city to come join with him to begin the Black Arts Repertory Theater in New York City.

Q. Your thoughts on America's Democratic process and its inherent contradictions?

A. On many levels, it really doesn't [matter] who is president because it is almost like the Queen of England, it's a ceremonial position. I think the last president who really had any power was Roosevelt and the ones who think they do have power get assassinated in this country. For instance Toni Morrison was once asked "Do you vote?" and she said yes, because I remember all those brothers and sisters, all those men and women who fought to get the vote. She said, "When I vote it's like a small prayer out by the road." Unfortunately, it's a shame by the time you get the bloody thing [the vote] the process has really become corrupted. But the point is what you take within you about the idea of what is good about voting. Democracy is not here; we must bring it into existence. So you carry the idea, you carry this prayer with you into a booth that some day we will make this process work. I used to say in the sixties that if we didn't write love poems, if we did ever get free we wouldn't know how to love. You got to practice it anyway. So we have to practice voting until at some point we're practicing at the highest level.

Q. At a debate at the Apollo Theater during the presidential primaries, Al Gore and Bill Bradley seemed to do a kind of political minstrel show. It was a "Am I Black Enough For You" contest where sound-bites and campaign promises were pitched to placate black fears. The serio-comic tone of the debate, the lore and sensibility of its very location, somehow just felt wrong. What's missing in campaign politics?

A. There are several people who involve themselves in the whole democratic process who I call political "socialites." You promise me something, I promise you something back; you give me a job, fine, I'll vote for you. They really aren't carrying the message of the people to the platform. This is about personal aggrandizement. Sometimes it's about "let us now have fun so the people can not be annoyed." I think we have to be very honest about the issues. We have to challenge any candidate to say specifically what they mean. But better than that you have to have your own national program. You don't come to people asking for promises, you come saying, "This is what we demand."

Q. In a recent CBS/New York Times national poll, 33% of Americans agreed with the statement, "It makes no real difference who is elected president…things will go on as they did before"…The same poll was conducted 20 years ago and only 19% agreed with this statement. Is activism in this country dying a slow death in America?

A. No it is not. It's just not being publicized. It is being downplayed and being replaced with hostility and anger and cynicism. They will write about the cynics of the world but not necessarily about the activists of the world. They will give you programs that make progressives ideas' the butt of humor. They will use the word "revolution" to sell cat food and toilet-stuff. It disempowers by co-opting, co-optation of everything that speaks to humanity. We need to teach and empower people at the same time.

Q. These are the greatest times in the history of the American economy and there is still debate over what to do with the so-called budget surplus. What would you use the money for?

A. I would certainly use it for education but I would not just throw it at the states. I would support someone like congressman Fattah, (D- state) who has put in the same legislation than Clayton Powell used to put in, trying to make sure that the schools in different states get the same amount of money for the school system. For example a school in Naurbert[cksp], Penn. Getting 14,000.00 and a school in Philadelphia getting 7,000.00. That kind of desparity is wrong. There's no problem with Social Security. We all pay money into it and it gains interest over the years. If y'all would just stop taking that money and fighting secret wars, people would have money to retire on.

Q. Current public opinion polls also show the Bush is ahead of Gore, with leadership a crucial issue. Despite the fact that Gore has been an elected official since 1976 and Bush wasn't elected to his first office until 1994. Why are we so easily swayed by names and association? Which candidate do you think is more prepared to lead?

A. They control the polls. They can tell us anything. How do we know? If they want to change the polls all they have to do is say, "this one is ahead of the other one." And we are so persuaded that we then to vote for the "winner". If I had to choose between Bush and Gore, I probably would choose Gore only because he is going to put people on the Supreme Court. People are coming off the bench, they're dying. And the reason we've had such a turn around of laws is because they put Clarence Thomas on the court. I was one of the people who stood up publicly against Clarence Thomas. Gore, in my head, if we make him accountable, [might help].

Q. Many believe that race is declining in significance in this country; that it's a political/social construct that is finally taking a backseat to class issues. Will America ever be a race-neutral society?

A. I don't know if America will ever be a race neutral society. But I certainly think that if we keep talking and having a dialogue that we can make people understand that the issues of race, class and gender are equal issues that should to be addressed and than none take precedence over the other. They are all interconnected to each other but sometimes what this country does is it will take class or gender over race or it will say to a whole generation that there is no race problem at all. We have to learn how to talk about these things in a very passionate and dispassionate way, an intellectual way and an emotional way.

Urban Like Me
President Clinton can do the surface interpretation of a black man; playing women, playing the sax, etc. People used to think only black men had these characteristics but maybe Clinton is really out there delivering for all the "white Negroes." But Clinton, like everybody else can always "jump back white." He can always say, "Excuse me, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that, I really am this poor white boy from Arkansas. We've always had a co-optation of our culture all the way back to the Twenties when you saw all the Broadway shows co-opting black dance. Anytime we've had anything going on for us, especially in music and the arts you've always had the co-optation of it. The Beetles did it. Elvis did it. But they could bring you [only] the surface pain of the blues, you know? We make them icons and they make a lot of money and yet they can't feel the real pain of these people who have been living the blues forever in this place called America.

No Labels, No Limits
Within capitalism there is some socialism. No one calls it that. And what you do is try to work toward a system that will respond more to the needs of the people. And you push it through any system that you happen to be involved in. But you're not going to get people to change, like 1-2-3, especially if you put names on it and give it tags. I teach a lot of stuff, I never give it names. If someone asks me, I might say oh yeah, I guess you could call it that, but I don't. I call it the best method for people to live and survive.

Q. "I been keeping company with the lay away man…each time he come by we do it on the installment plan…" This blues riff is a line from your collection of poems, "Wounded in the House Of a Friend." Today we have what I call the "Little Kim Generation," a kind of ultra-consumerist, sex-based feminism where some women use their bodies or material possessions for empowerment. Things have shifted a bit in what is socially acceptable, but how much has really changed?

A. I don't think that it is possible to use your body to empower the soul. We might use the body to get the material stuff that we want and we think that will make us empowered. But that's nothing new. I've seen it in universities, young [women] say "Well since I was treated this way, I'm going to be just like men and go through men the way they go through women." The premise is trying to get back at people for being treated a certain way. But it's not a human response to people. Its difficult as it is just being human on this earth, the world, the country conspires to make us less than human. The way to go is not to try to hurt or bad-mouth people. You can't get empowered that way and you'll just have a very tired body by the time you get any money. True empowerment happens when you learn how to navigate and organize within yourself and within this world.

Q. As an educator, what is your philosophy or process?

A. I've been teaching for thirty years. I first started teaching at San Francisco State in the English department. One day two FBI agents came to my house and told my landlord that they should put me out. One of the FBI men put his hand in my face and said I was one of those radicals up on the campus and that the landlord should put me out. He said, "You're teaching ‘DuBois' " (pronounces it the French way). I stopped in my tracks at the door. Yes, I was teaching DuBois, Robeson, The Chairman and Garvey. But I was teaching literature. So I responded, "But I'm just teaching literature" And it hit me. I was teaching sociology, economics, the culture of a people. See they understood that better than I did. That I was teaching a history and herstory of a people, of a movement, of what was going on in the world. They understood the books I'd chosen. This country had conspired to keep DuBois dead in this country. No one studied DuBois, No one studied Garvey. No one studied Robeson. Those people were all white-balled in this country and by resurrecting these people, they looked at you as a problem. But I didn't understand that until they came to my house. It changed my whole way of teaching literature. I approached it with the history, the sociology, the economics and the politics of it. And I thank those two FBI agents for showing me how.

Q. What have you learned about successfully navigating through change?

A. I think constantly being honest with yourself and constantly remaining on a quest to learn. I've changed myself, and I know if I can change, anyone can. I am not a revisionist. The first time I heard Malcolm I ducked. I had to learn then what he was saying and listen to him. When people talked about gay people years ago, I laughed like everybody else, right? And then I looked up, and my brother was gay, and I grabbed his hand and loved him. My students were gay, I grabbed their hands and loved them and respected them, OK. Hear what I'm saying? I know change is possible and I know the country can change but I think we need consistent work to do that. But some of us get tired and beat-up. If they know you're honest, this country will beat you up, starve you out, and tire you out. Then they say, oh, what happened to her? Or what happened to him? So I think at some point we need places for people to rest, to renew, to regroup, to come out to continue the battle. Someone once said I was an eternal optimist. And I said I am a scientist in that I know that once you initiate change it cannot be stopped. The law of physics tells you that when something starts in motion it will never stop. We have started the motion towards change in this country and it can never be stopped. Dr. King said that the earth is tilted towards justice and it is. It is.

BlogON: Sanchez and other artists from the so-called "Black Arts Movement" made profound contributions to our cultural landscape. How have poetics changed since then and what has poetry done for you lately? WhatchuLEARN?